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‍-> Short Survey: Tell us what you think of Second Nature

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Whether you're a parent, an auntie, a coach, a godfather — there's a lot to think about when it comes to raising a more sustainable generation. How can we raise young people to take better care of the planet than the generations before them?

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‍For our last episode of season 3, we're looking into the future to see how younger generations are thinking about climate change. From plant-based eating to civic engagement, we’re talking to our community, Moms Clean Air Force, and Commons founder Sanchali Seth Pal to find out how folks are raising kids to take action.

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Here are some of the people you'll hear from in this episode:

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Episode Credits

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• Listener contributions: Amea Wadsworth, Brian Stancheski, Elisabeth, Federica, Jacqueline  Elliott, Liv, Sara Rego, Sare, Tiffany, Willa Stoutenbeek, Paloma, Stevia, Ezra, Ace, Aza, Stella, Emmett‍
• Episode expert: Alexandra Zissu‍
• Editing and engineering: Evan Goodchild‍‍
• Hosting and production: Katelan Cunningham

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Citations and Further Reading

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• How Climate Change Will Hit Younger Generations | Scientific American
• Global snapshot of climate-related school disruptions in 2024
• Climate anxiety in children and young people and their beliefs about government responses to climate change: a global survey - ScienceDirect
• This chart shows global youth perspectives on climate change
• Gen Z, Millennials Stand Out for Climate Change Activism, Social Media Engagement With Issue | Pew Research Center
• Join Moms' Maternal & Children's Health Forum Live May 8

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Full Transcript

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Katelan (00:00):

Hey, welcome back to Second Nature, a podcast from Commons. If you are a sustainably minded person, I assume you are because you're listening to this show. You might like the Commons app. There are over 100,000 people just like you using the Commons app every week to save money and feel better about where their money is going. And here on Second Nature, we talk to people about how they're living sustainably in an unsustainable world. Last season we opened the first episode with a question, should we have kids in a climate crisis? And y'all had some mixed responses.

Tiffany (00:46):

The climate crisis in children. Oh boy.

Amea (00:50):

For as long as I can remember, I've always wanted to be a mother. It's something that I feel like is a part of my being and I haven't made the decision to be a mother lightly. The US isn't really equipped to help mothers and parents raise their kids. Do you think we should stop having babies to save the planet? Uh, I think this is not a realistic question.

Liv (01:12):

I'm currently leaning yes, but ask me after some natural disaster and maybe that opinion will have changed.

Speaker 5 (01:21):

I never wanted to have kids. One of the reasons is because of the situation with the climate.

Tiffany (01:26):

I think we're always gonna be nervous to have children no matter what's going on. So just go do whatever it is that makes your little heart happy.

Katelan (01:37):

Whether or not you believe we should be having more children, I think we can all agree that with new information, new science, new resources, we can raise each new generation more sustainably than the last.

Katelan (01:51):

But what does that mean to raise a generation sustainably? How do we teach kids to take better care of the planet than the generations before them? What is it going to take to stop climate change and even better to undo the damage that's been done so far? For today's episode, our season three finale, we wanted to look into the future to see how younger generations are thinking about climate change and from plant-based eating to civic engagement. We're gonna find out how folks are raising kids to take climate action. Plus we're gonna talk to some kids. I'm your host Katelan Cunningham. Let's go.

Katelan (02:37):

I'm in my thirties and when I think about how we talked about climate change when I was younger, I remember the hole in the ozone layer being a big deal. I remember diligent recycling. I was in high school when Hurricane Katrina hit. Another big one was the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. That happened when I was in my early college years. I'm from Texas. I mean there were definitely some abnormally hot summers, even some abnormally cold winters. I remember a lot of go green slogans on fast fashion t-shirts and tote bags.

Katelan (03:13):

But as climate change gets worse and it's effects are compounding each year we're going to feel it more and more. Which means younger generations are going to live through more than a handful of climate disasters. At the rate we're warming the planet right now, the risk of serious natural disasters gets greater each year, which means the younger you are, the more climate disasters you're going to experience. Heat waves are the most prevalent, followed by drought as the planet heats up, there's also an increased risk of crop failure. River floods, wildfires, cyclones. Besides the obvious health and safety risks, climate emergencies have other ripple effects. According to UNICEF around the world, 242 million students experienced school disruptions last year in 2024. That's one in seven students in at least 20 countries. They had nationwide school disruptions last year Because of climate induced disasters like heat waves and tropical cyclones, climate disasters are more likely to affect lower income students, especially in countries in the southern hemisphere which are more at risk. Basically kids these days have spent their entire lives in the world that my Save the Earth t-shirts warned us about.

Katelan (04:31):

It's no wonder that nearly 70% of people from the ages of 16 to 25 are extremely or very worried about climate change. Nearly half of 10,000 young people surveyed over 10 countries said that climate related anxiety and distress is affecting their daily lives and ability to function normally. And when it comes to the government's climate action, young people feel more betrayed than reassured, which is probably why young folks tend to be more active in taking action to fight climate change. So perhaps raising a sustainable generation isn't just about the controlled environments that we create for them, but also being able to step up to the front lines as part of their fight for a better world. What we do at home definitely matters too. One way you can help young folks care about climate change is to instill climate friendly habits and help them understand how and why these choices are better for the planet. It may seem like a small thing, but think about how many lifelong habits you developed as a child when you were little. Were you taught not to waste food or to recycle your plastic or maybe you just went to the library a lot. These frequent small habits build an appreciation and an understanding of how our actions are part of a whole. We asked you our community, how you are raising a more sustainable generation. Here's what she said.

Willa (06:11):

One day we went to this organic grocery store and we were waiting at the cash register and he's talking to me, he's like a little bit shy, he's like, can you ask the lady if I can ask her a question? And he was like, I was just wondering why are you still selling meat?

Willa (06:32):

The lady behind the cash register, she said, wow, that's actually a really great question. I honestly do not know why we still do. And he's like, yeah, because it's not good for the earth and we're killing animals and it's just not right. And she was like, I'm gonna pass it on to our management team. And uh, thank you so much for the insightful information. It was really cute. I mean it's also sometimes difficult 'cause he does sometimes confront people with certain choices and I try to teach eloa to not be judgmental and to be open. But it's interesting <laugh> how black and white he can be about it as well.

Tiffany (07:08):

I have a toddler so there's no getting through to him. He's just crazy. But my oldest got a bike and he just asked if he could find a way to make like a trash bucket. He's got this little trash grabber and he wanted to go around the neighborhood picking up trash and I didn't even have to prompt him and that was a very proud mom moment for me.

Jacqueline (07:30):

I have a 2-year-old and a six month old even before the kids were born, we set a goal for ourselves to do as little buying and as little single use as possible. There were really three things that we took on from the beginning. First was we decided we were gonna do cloth diapering. So our goal is to use as few disposable diapers as possible. So I think we only bought between our two kids maybe a dozen boxes of diapers, otherwise they've been on cloth. The second is that we decided to do second hand for everything, even with my first, so the crib, the changing table, the strollers, the car seats, clothes, toys, it was all secondhand. And then the third thing we decided from the outside is that we were going to use reusable milk storage, trying to avoid all that plastic, knowing the direction that our work climate is headed. I strongly feel that I have to do everything in my power to give them a future that I want for them.

Brian (08:30):

I have one son, he's eight years old. What motivates me in sustainable parenting is that he goes out and tells people my dad works in sustainability and he's really proud of it and he tries to apply it to his everyday life and and though sometimes he doesn't always get it right, a lot of times he does get it right. I think it's really funny talking to him and he doesn't understand how long the sustainable movement's been going on or things about sustainability. And he thinks I'm an originator of sustainable thinking and it's like he credits me with things like, oh well my dad. And I'm like, uh, I didn't come up with that but thank you <laugh>. So that's always funny

Sara (09:10):

By thinking about the kind of future I want him to be in, well to live I'm propelled to act and uh, do something and also share it with them so he can learn the importance of being part of something bigger than him or us, which is nature. And understand that we live because there is a right balance that allowed it to happen. If we break that balance, we will lose our ground.

Willa (09:40):

I think most kids actually have a far better understanding of what should be the norm instead of what is the norm because they're not so tainted with everything, all the context that we have and all the conditioning that we have. So it's actually beautiful to see that they have a very clear understanding of what makes sense and what doesn't. Paloma,

Paloma's mom (10:06):

How do you take care of the planet?

Paloma (10:08):

I will pick up trash and throw in trash can. And the same thing with recycling and compost.

Ace (10:17):

Uh, the way to make the earth safe is, is to pick up trash and make the earth hydrated.

Emmett (10:26):

I think just like, not like wasting water, wasting materials like leaving the sink on what, when it doesn't need to be. And like a lot of other things that just like hurt you off in the environment, including the big one. But like don't like dig it up. Don't like, I mean yes you can dig but like don't like don't like take away its purpose. Just like leave it there. Nature is nature and let it be nature.

Aza's parent (10:52):

How do you take care of the earth

Aza (10:54):

By protesting and using bikes,

Stella (11:01):

Trying to resolve the ecosystem and not making animals go extinct. So for example, I don't like trying to harm animals in the forest. Like if you see like a squa or something feeding it something that like it might not have and then that could cause it to die or something and then it could impact the food chain in the ecosystem. I also just enjoy the outdoors. I bike a lot of places instead of using causes that helps not pollute the ale,

Stevie (11:43):

We help the earth.

Speaker 15 (11:45):

What do we do to help the earth?

Speaker 14 (11:48):

We do kind things

Speaker 15 (11:51):

Well. What are kind things that we can

Speaker 14 (11:52):

Do for the earth? We plant some flowers that's helping the earth

Katelan (12:02):

Outside of the walls of your home or your classroom. What else can we do to create a more sustainable future for younger generations? Moms Clean Air Force is a community of 1.5 million moms and dads who are united against air pollution and climate change. Alexandra Ssu is on the editorial team there and I caught up with her in early May the day after they hosted the maternal and children's health forum in Washington DC Hey Alexandra, so glad to have you on the show.

Alexandra (12:37):

Thank you so much for having me

Katelan (12:39):

At Moms Clean Air Force. You have so many things that y'all are working on. I just wanted to start with if you could give us a gist of the kinds of efforts and projects y'all take on and maybe some of the latest accomplishments that you're really excited about.

Alexandra (12:53):

I am part of the editorial team at Mons Clean Air Force. I mostly write and edit but we have a pretty big staff and we have people working on policy and we have people working locally as state organizers and we're in many states around the nation and our mission is to protect children from air pollution and climate change. Envision a safe, stable and equitable future where all children breathe clean air. So while it's broad, it's also pretty basic and we have a community of over 1.5 million moms and dads united in this mission. And we're really working for something that we call justice in every breath, which is recognize the importance of equitable solutions and addressing air pollution and climate change. We do consider ourselves what we call here a mom partisan because protecting children's health is a non-partisan issue. And like I said, I'm part of the editorial team so this was not my work but we're all interrelated and involved here.

Alexandra (13:47):

Actually yesterday we had a convening in DC a forum called Maternal and Children's Health in a Dangerous Climate and it was really like a panel of experts that were discussing the impact of air pollution, plastics and heat specifically on women of color. And I was not in DC yesterday. I watched it from home and I am still just so grateful to be part of this team and so proud and the speakers were just beyond amazing and we have a link to that on the website and we're all talking about it, especially with what has been happening with this current administration. I just feel really amazed that we were able to come together and have those really really critical discussions. And on the editorial front we just launched a series this week where we're interviewing scientists about the practical implications of the federal attacks on science jobs, science funding and science education for our audience which is the everyday families and sort of sounding the alarm on what's happening with public health.

Alexandra (14:42):

So I kicked off the series by interviewing Dr. Phil Landrigan who's a pediatrician and public health physician, probably best known for his tireless work to get led out of gasoline in the 1970s. So he's not this a long time, he's totally amazing like mind blowing conversation and in the seventies getting led out of gasoline. It was a bipartisan win and it took place over several residencies. Environmental Protection Agency was willing to meet with him and he said that he isn't really sure that the current EPA would even meet with him now to get led out of gasoline, which was really sort of a devastating revelation in our interview. And I will be continuing to find scientists to try to talk to to contextualize what is happening, which to me is essentially a war on science in America. Even though I thought America was the best at science in the world and I don't understand it and I'm turning to these big brains to help me make sense of it and also to give information to people who want to support science. I'm pretty pretty psyched about that series.

Katelan (15:50):

You are a mom and you are a working mom and I assume that's very, very time consuming. And so I just kind of wondered if we could step back a little and just understand why you personally got involved and like took the time to continue to be involved in Moms Clean Air Force.

Alexandra (16:08):

A lot of our members are volunteers. I'm not a volunteer, it's my job so that makes it a little easier. I am a journalist, I have a 19-year-old and a 12-year-old before the 19-year-old showed up. I was focused on fashion and food mostly at magazines and newspapers. And a colleague of mine asked me how I was gonna make my pregnancy as organic as the food I was eating. 'cause I was pretty obnoxious in telling everybody what kind of food I was eating and organic was. I felt really strongly about uh, sustainable agriculture. Yeah. And everybody knew it and the question that I was asked actually changed the trajectory of my career. So I co-wrote a book with that friend. It was called the Complete Organic Pregnancy And like I said, that book came out 19 years ago and the subject is about to arrive home after completing her freshman year. But since then I've published five additional books in the environmental health realm. So like I always say, once you learn you can't unlearn environmental health advocacy mostly through my writing is my personal mission. How could I not get involved with Moms Clean Air Force?

Katelan (17:12):

It kind of feels like environmental work is like the fullest time job not not comparing to all jobs, but just to say that it feels like something that you're thinking about all the time anyway,

Alexandra (17:22):

It can feel very all consuming but it feels really good to be able to do something about it. It takes a really long time to move the needle on some of these things in terms of air protections, in terms of better policy, in terms of better products for everyday families. But I would feel even more despondent if I were doing nothing.

Katelan (17:45):

You mentioned that when you were pregnant, organic food was super important to you. Were there other issues or things that you became aware of or became concerned about when you got pregnant started becoming a mom and have those concerns changed over time?

Alexandra (17:59):

I mean researching the complete organic pregnancy was a a mind blowing experience. My focus in my career and as a mother has mostly been toxic chemicals in everyday products. But if we don't have clean air to breathe, we don't have our health at all. So the climate crisis, I mean it's the crisis of our time, right? During the early days of the pandemic, I made a decision to sort of shift my focus from toxic chemicals in everyday products and more to the climate and here I am. But of course now that I made the shift, it's not a shift, it's like an addition to you know, moms clean Air Force is super focused on the kinds of big issues that need like systemic big solutions. And my work prior to joining was like very focused on actions individuals can take in their homes to safeguard their bodies but nobody can filter the outside error.

Alexandra (18:48):

Maybe someone will come up with that and that's why I'm super interested in science and science based solutions. But like no one person can keep mercury out of a kid's tuna fish sandwich. We need these bigger coalitions. And then as I was starting to work at mom, it's not just tuna fish but it's like nobody can plug abandoned methane wells that are spewing climate emissions. Like that wasn't on my radar the same way prior to joining moms. While I still think individual change is critical and can move, especially the market in terms of products available and product's not available, we can't buy our way out of the giant problems. You can't just be like a good shopper and then you're done. So banding together with an organization to fight for big changes, better policy, better regulations, just it's like a add to my work that I've been doing.

Alexandra (19:40):

We do also work on toxic chemicals at moms. So it's not like one or the other. The shift, like I said, didn't leave something behind. There's tremendous overlap. Obviously air pollutants can be toxic chemicals, so there's like that big one. So at moms I do a column, it's called mom detective or ask a mom detective. And I answer questions just from regular people that write in, you know, with their safety questions at home. And I can't tell you how many people ask me about plastic and plastic safety. And we at moms work a lot on petrochemicals. Plastic is made from fossil fuels, plastic is essentially a petrochemical product. So I really, again, I think it's more that instead of shifting over time, I expanded my heart and mind and work to include climate and air pollution. And I didn't, I haven't excluded, you know, anything else that was on my radar before I joined Moms Children's health is top of mind, always, always, always. Not every community knows to shop their way out of a product. Not every person can afford to shop their way out of toxic chemicals. And so asking, demanding, urging other people to ask and demand for stronger policy and stronger regulations on air pollution and climate pollutants is really just fighting with all that, we have all the tools in the toolkit.

Katelan (20:59):

Just yesterday your team was in Washington. It feels like every week the new administration is rolling back some policies that were protecting the environment and we weren't even where we needed to be before and now it feels like we're 10 steps back. I'm wondering how has your team's work changed and and like what's the mood <laugh> like what's the mood generally with your team?

Alexandra (21:22):

The mood ebbs and flows. The rollbacks are front and center in all we do. Like I said, I'm personally working on content and editorial on words. I write fact sheets, I write articles for our websites and there even have been edits that have needed to be made. This administration has also waged war on words and wants to ban certain words which directly impacts someone like me who's using words. Obviously the bigger issue is rolling back climate pollution protections, but if we can't say DEI or environmental justice, which are you know, essential to the work we do. And am I allowed to say that right now? I mean I don't even know I'm a writer. I can come up with different words. The mission has not changed. We do not have an EPA that wants to work on what we've been working on with them for the past four years.

Alexandra (22:10):

But the mission continues, the work continues. Our founder called us Pragmatic warriors the other day. We're just working getting the work done. Even with the last administration we, we were still working on something. One of the women that was at this event yesterday in DC was the head of the first office of environmental justice in the federal government. And that office and that job no longer exists. That's a stark reminder and an important reminder of what we're fighting for Dr. Jone Newsome, she's amazing and her talk was amazing yesterday and she believes that there'll be an office again in 2029. So that helps the mood and that helps the work.

Katelan (22:52):

It's like I thought someone was taking care of this and then you realize not only was someone taking care of it but they were barely making it and now they're no longer there like <laugh>. It's just, it's a lot to take in.

Alexandra (23:04):

I think sometimes if you like this happens to me sometimes when I'm interviewing someone who's, you know, profoundly amazing human that has many ears of public health work for example. It's almost like listening to a beautiful song. The amount of sense that the person's making as I'm sort of typing and interviewing, it soothes me but it also allows me to feel some of the incredible grief, you know, we don't have words for it. Just like when the pandemic rolled through. I didn't expect to be in a global pandemic in my lifetime with my children. So it feels a little similar and I feel a lot of grief and sadness and the climate work is not without its own layers of grief and sadness and hope. And again that goes back to the mood of my group of colleagues here at Moms Clean Air Force. It's like there's a lot of room for the motions of it, including the wins. You know those, those feel great. We won't have as many of them right now and we will just pivot and find the opportunities where we can.

Katelan (24:05):

I wanted to leave off with what advice you would give parents who wanna take climate action but feel completely overwhelmed with their day-to-day. Where would you start?

Alexandra (24:16):

Join me. So an open-ended invitation. We're talking about the very basics when it comes down to it is actually part of parenting to advocate for your children's health. It's just the tiniest step away to then say that that means clean air, clean water, right? It's not an add-on, it's part of parenting and small amounts of action matter. You don't have to be doing it full-time, you don't have to, you know, give up your weekends full time. Being ready to take action matters. Like I just said. Joining a group like Moms Clean Air Force can take a huge amount of the guesswork and the general work out of climate action for overwhelmed parents and caregivers. You also get action alerts, petitions to sign information about events to attend. I am reading a lot lately about getting involved locally in your state and in your town 'cause there's a lot that can be actually accomplished when you do climate work and you can accomplish something.

Alexandra (25:09):

It has a feedback loop, it feels good and you wanna keep going. So get involved locally. One thing that I always like to say is what do you like? Are you someone that likes to be part of the PTO or the PTA or whatever it's called near you or do you wanna get on the school board, hop in if that's your vibe and you might wind up with an electric school bus for your district. So like if you do baby steps, start with the thing that they're doing most. Like are you someone that loves food? Then you would wanna like find a farmer's market near you and and start in that direction. Change the thing that's in your life the most. If you're not someone that wants to go to Washington and talk to your congress people, I believe that joining a local farm is climate action.

Alexandra (25:53):

Also, I just wanna say our kids are watching and it's not something you have to do without your kids. Make that phone call that you don't wanna make or do wanna make call your elected official in front of your kid. I swear they'll be like, wait, who were you just calling? Like what was that? They need to hear this. They need to know that we're fighting for their future and that we want them to be able to breathe clean air and that this is what it looks like to ask for what you need in life when you take action there is a high, you feel less alone. I mean this is really isolating, scary stuff, right? Yeah. You hit the street or you hit the planting tree event and you see how many other people care and it's instant community. I'm not saying you walk away with like 10 people's phone numbers and you have a million million best friends <laugh> but like you're doing it together for our shared earth. That's my advice to parents who want to take climate action but feel overwhelmed. We are all overwhelmed and I can't wait to see you planting trees, getting electric school buses. I will be there at all of them in my own way and there's a million knees and there's a million views and let's just do it.

Katelan (27:07):

Well thank you so much for all the inspiring work that you do and for sharing. Um, I hope people go and check out Moms Clean Air Force and all the great work y'all are doing.

Alexandra (27:16):

Thank you so much. Sign the petitions. Moms clean air force.org

Katelan (27:31):

Planning to raise a kid sustainably can start even before they're born. As soon as her parent journey started, commons founders Sanchali Seth Pal started researching to find out the best ways to raise her kids sustainably. Not just for the environment but for her budget and for her time too. Alright Sanchali. So let's start from the beginning. A couple years ago you decided to have a baby and now you have a baby.

Sanchali (28:00):

Yes I do. <laugh> having kids isn't for everyone for sure and not everyone who wants to have a kid gets to have one. So this is a very personal choice but fundamentally I see bringing a child into the world as a really hopeful choice. It's about deciding that there's a world worth bringing new life into. That said, it is a choice that has financial costs and environmental costs. Everyone says like having a baby is the biggest environmental choice you can make. That's generally based on a person's lifetime footprint. Having another person in the world has an environmental cost. So I was thinking about what are the emissions that I'm gonna rack up in that first year of my child's life and how much will that cost me financially as well?

Katelan (28:43):

How do you even begin to answer <laugh> that question.

Sanchali (28:47):

So in trying to make this decision, I was thinking about what choices matter most from an environmental standpoint. What choices I will actually make consistently that I can financially sustain. Yeah. Over the course of that child's first year of life. So I started looking at the numbers to figure this out.

Katelan (29:06):

Okay, so some baby data, I love this.

Sanchali (29:09):

Nothing like making something as fun as having a baby even more fun by adding data to it. <laugh>, it was fun for me at least going into it I thought diapers were definitely gonna be the biggest environmental cost and I was honestly pretty stressed about it. But when I got into it I found out that diapers are actually a lower impact than I thought. There's sort of three big factors that go into the environmental impact and financial impact of having a child in the first year of life. Excluding healthcare costs. Diapers are kind of low impact. Low cost. It costs about a thousand dollars a year plus or minus depending what kind of diapers you use. And the environmental impact of that can be a few hundred kgs of CO2 per year. That's actually relatively low compared to the stuff that you buy that's like way more environmental impact. That's actually the highest impact and highest cost of having a child is like all the gear you buy for them. Like the strollers, the car seats, the furniture, the clothes, all of that adds up to like probably several thousand dollars in your first year depending on how you decide to procure those things. And also somewhere between like 2000 to 10,000 kgs of CO2 compared to diapers. That's at least an order of magnitude higher on the environmental impact and significantly higher on cost.

Katelan (30:27):

Got it. So stuff racks up more emissions than than diapers specifically, but you said 2000 to 10,000 kgs. That feels like a big range to me.

Sanchali (30:37):

It is a really big range. It's because it's the place where we have the greatest opportunity for impact with our choices. If you were to buy all of the things that media and advertisements tell you you need to buy and you were to buy it all new and to buy stuff that was like the fanciest, yeah you could probably end up with something close to 10 tons of carbon or 10,000 kgs of CO2 in that first year. If you buy very few things and you buy them all secondhand, you could honestly end up with close to zero emissions. There's just such a huge range in what people choose to buy that it, it ends up being a big range in terms of financial cost and environmental cost.

Katelan (31:15):

What about when it comes to food?

Sanchali (31:17):

It's somewhere in the middle. It's kind of like medium impact, medium cost. I estimated that this is somewhere low, thousands of dollars probably for a child's first year of life. If you think about formula and solid food that you're buying for a kid. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and depending on whether you breastfeed or not could be lower or higher too. You have to get different amounts of things. Similarly with the environmental cost, it's probably somewhere between like 1,002 thousand tons of carbon in a year to feed a human baby for a year. Again, it depends on whether they're fully plant-based or how much breast milk versus how much formula. But it's more than diapers but less than all the other stuff.

Katelan (31:54):

Was there anything that maybe you hadn't thought of on your list as you're starting to prepare for all these different expenses, both financial and environmental?

Sanchali (32:03):

Yeah, definitely. There was lots of stuff I didn't think of. The thing I think I really didn't consider in advance was how important health considerations would be to me As a parent I care about my own health a bit. Like I try to eat healthy and <laugh>, you know, work out. But in reality I actually care about my child's health way more than I think about my own health. So things that I didn't anticipate were like how much health and sustainability would both be considerations in my decisions for my child.

Katelan (32:34):

That's so interesting. How do those two things, health and sustainability, how do they overlap or where do they sort of start to intersect for you?

Sanchali (32:42):

So sometimes they reinforce each other. For instance, when we started feeding our child more formula, I was looking for healthy formula options and a lot of the more healthy options also produced in a more sustainable way. So that was great. And when I was like paying a little bit of a premium for health and sustainability, it made me feel better about my decision to do that. But sometimes they were at odds. Hmm. Sometimes it's made my sustainability choices a little bit less straightforward.

Katelan (33:11):

Can you give us an example?

Sanchali (33:13):

So example is like I was trying to get all of the milk bottles for our baby on a buy nothing group or secondhand. 'cause I was like, you know, someone else has bottles, I don't need to buy new ones. So I saw someone in my local buy nothing group was giving away a bunch of bottles and I was like, oh great, I'll pick 'em all up. They were all plastic. I didn't think about that at all before I gave birth to the child. Then a few months in, I had this moment where I was like oh my gosh, I'm heating these bottles up and they're plastic and this is my child's like only source of nutrition and she has such a fragile immune system and body. Like I don't wanna put more plastics into her body, especially not now. Yeah. So I suddenly got really concerned about using only plastic bottles and I wanted to use more glass bottles but then I needed them like right away. So I looked at my buy nothing group and my Facebook marketplace and no one happened to be selling or giving away glass bottles like that day or that week and I was like okay, I'm just gonna buy them. I need them now. So my health considerations and sustainability considerations were totally at odds.

Katelan (34:16):

As you've been buying things for your baby over the past year, have you developed any like rules of thumb or practices around when to buy stuff, when not to buy stuff?

Sanchali (34:26):

Yeah, I mean generally my number one thing I've been trying to focus on is just buying less stuff. Someone like me, I live in a small space, I live in an apartment and I don't wanna have a ton of stuff in there all the time. So my number one question whenever I'm thinking about getting something is do I need it or can I avoid it or consolidate it with another need. A question is like do I need burp cloth separate from bibs? Can I just get bibs that I also use as burp cloths or you know, they're just like silly little things and I'm like if I could just use one less thing, I would love to do it. And also if I can borrow or get hand-me-downs, it's amazing because I don't wanna spend money on stuff that I'm gonna use for a few months and then never have to use again. Right.

Katelan (35:06):

Yeah.

Sanchali (35:06):

And then when I do have to buy stuff, it's all about buying better things and especially the things that I'm gonna be investing in for the longer term. If there's things that I'm gonna have for a long time, like a crib, it's like can I get this second hand? Can I get it really high quality? Can I get one that's gonna last me a really long time? So we got lucky, my cousin gave us her hand me down crib and it's a crib that can also turn into a toddler bed so we can use it for like five years. So things like that were like really critical or can I buy it better than for something that really matters? And I was honestly surprised by how much you can get secondhand. I thought I would never be able to get stuff like formula or like storage bags for breast milk secondhand got so many of those things secondhand lotion, like people have so many unopened things that yeah they're just trying to get rid of people like me who don't want it sitting in their cabinet for another few years. So it's actually amazing how much you can get secondhand.

Katelan (35:58):

How much of this were you able to like plan ahead and how much of it did you learn as you go?

Sanchali (36:04):

Planning in advance was definitely key. When we found out that we were gonna have a baby, my husband and I made a shared note. It was like a what to worry about when list. So it was every month, what are the decisions we had to make that month? I love that. And then part of that was the stuff we needed to buy. So for that we made a wishlist, a big spreadsheet of all the things we thought we needed and we spent time curating it like how many onesies do we need? Do we need a crib and a bassinet or we just need one or the other. So we had all of these decisions that we made and we planned them out in advance so that when we actually went to buy something or procure something or borrow it, we were really confident in the stuff we wanted. I'll say like a lot of the stuff you can guess in advance, there's only so many things like a car seat, a stroller, a crib, there's only so many big things that you need. Mm-hmm <affirmative> But then of course there's stuff that you don't anticipate. It's much harder to be sustainable or thrifty when you only realize at like two in the morning on two hours of sleep that you really need it <laugh> and then you just end up buying something. Yeah,

Sanchali (37:03):

Right in the moment when, when you didn't anticipate, it

Katelan (37:06):

Sounds like you and your husband did a ton of planning for what you're gonna do secondhand, all that. How does that factor into when it's time for people to give you gifts? Because people love getting gifts for babies <laugh>. And I think it's easy to get overwhelmed with stuff and it's hard to say no to stuff when people are just trying to be nice.

Sanchali (37:24):

Totally. It's really hard to control what other people give you. Even me, I feel like I have a reputation among my friends and family for being <laugh> very intense about wanting to buy things sustainably and not not wanting any unneeded stuff. Even then people gave me stuff that I didn't need. I'll say for like anyone who's having a kid, the things that were most commonly gifted that I wish I had gotten less of ahead of time myself were like clothes, towels and blankets. Same with stuffed animals. So maybe it's just my friends and family, but those were the most commonly gifted things. That said, I also did my best to try to tell people what I wanted and be really explicit about it. So the wishlist I mentioned, I gave that hand me down wishlist to everyone for our baby shower and I asked everyone to please give us something from the list and if someone didn't have a kid and they still wanted to give us something to see if they could find it on Facebook marketplace or buy nothing group near them. So nice. That was really great. And some of our favorite items were things that people found from their neighbors or communities and gave us for our baby shower.

Katelan (38:28):

That's so nice. You know, you guys planned a lot, but I'm wondering if there's anything that has challenged your assumptions going into planning all of this stuff.

Sanchali (38:40):

One is you can get more secondhand than you think. There's some stuff that's pretty controversial online to get secondhand for safety reasons like strollers and cribs or things like teethers or pacifiers 'cause people think it's gross, like burp cloths to pass those down. I personally think all of that is totally fine to get secondhand if you're trying to buy a car seat or a stroller or crib secondhand and you're worried about health and safety. A few things to look for is like one, I looked for models that are newer. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Sometimes if you can get it even within the manufacturer warranty and the person who's giving it to you can give you the warranty. I was looking for things that were within a five year warranty still. I also looked and asked sellers to take pictures of any damage specifically so that I could look at it ahead of time and make sure it was okay. And if a car seat has ever gotten into an accident that it was a no-go for me. So just making sure that you know that it's like in good condition and can be used again. Consumables too, like we mentioned like lotion, lots of like breastfeeding accessories, all of that is like amazing because you use it for so short and then you hand it on. So buy nothing groups. Amazing.

Katelan (39:51):

So thinking beyond the stuff, the physical things that your baby needs, what else are you thinking about when it comes to raising her more sustainably or in a more sustainable world?

Sanchali (40:03):

My concept of sustainability has definitely expanded beyond the stuff when you're preparing for a child, maybe this is just me, it became really attractive to focus on like the tangible things that you can control and you can prepare. Yeah. But since she's gotten a bit older, I've started thinking about some of the other elements that I want her to have in a more sustainable life. The number one thing is community. Mm. Thinking about like where do we physically live? What kinds of people do I want her to grow up around? Wanting to make sure that we spend time with family and friends, feeling like you're part of a place. And also that that becomes your shared resources too. So they're the people you can rely on when you're like, I need more diapers. Do you guys have extras you wanna hand down from your kids you never used? Yeah. You know, just being able to lean on people and ask for support. So community's been a big one. Another one has been connection to nature. It's been such a joy to see how much she loves being outside. Aw,

Katelan (40:59):

<laugh>.

Sanchali (41:00):

It's like so visceral. Like she gets cranky if she hasn't been outdoors and it's been a few hours that she's awake and it makes me remember that that's probably happening inside me too. <laugh> and I have just suppressed that crankiness over time. Yeah, and I think the third thing is getting more engaged civically. It's always something that's been important to me, but sometimes it's hard to prioritize when you have a busy job or you have a lot going on in your life. But remembering she's gonna be on this earth for a lot longer than I am, hopefully. And it's really important to advocate for policies that will matter over the course of decades. It's been really motivating for me to stay engaged with policies and And local, local civic engagement too.

Katelan (41:43):

Okay, so some big takeaways here. Babies don't need a bunch of new stuff. Secondhand stuff is okay, diapers aren't the biggest deal. And when you feel like you've got all that stuff under control, think about the big picture, right?

Sanchali (41:57):

Yeah. Really savor the little moments. Everything is new for them. It reminds you how amazing little things like leaves are <laugh>. Like the fact that this leaf is different from that other leaf. Amazing. And then not to forget the big picture, all of this is in an effort to create a better, more livable world, a safer world for all of us and for future generations. And so giving ourselves all some grace that not every choice we make is gonna make or break our future, but the sum of all of them and sort of the motivation and passion to stay engaged with our larger choices and with the government is really important.

Katelan (42:33):

I think that whether people are parents or not, that's really good advice. Thanks for another great season, Sinja.

Sanchali (42:41):

Thank you for a great season. I can't believe it's over and I can't wait for the next one.

Katelan (42:46):

Me too. If you've tried talking to folks about climate change before then you probably know that so much of the challenge we're fighting right now is just getting people to care enough, care enough to change small habits, care enough to change big habits, care enough to buy less and buy better stuff, care enough to call their reps care enough to take action. We're all so used to doing things a certain way, and the more ingrained your habits are, the harder it is to break them, no matter how much you care. So imagine if younger generations grew up defaulting to climate action, to carrying through how they eat, how they travel, how they shop, how they vote. If the most environmental choice is the easiest, most obvious choice, then we can skip past the talk of trade-offs and make some substantial changes. If you're a young person listening to the show, you're no doubt nearly there for our millennials, gen X and Boomer listeners, whether you are a parent, a guardian, a grandparent, a teacher, a coach, an uncle and auntie. Let's lead by example. Yeah, the children are our future, but we are the present. Let's get to work

Katelan (44:05):

Today. You heard from [credits]

Katelan (44:29):

This episode and the other 27 episodes of Second Nature. Were all edited and engineered by the one and only Evan Goodchild. Everyone say thank you Evan. I'm your host Katelan Cunningham, and it's been an absolute honor and privilege to bring you another season of second Nature. We'd really truly love to know what you're thinking about the show. So please take a minute to fill out the survey in the episode description and if you haven't yet, please rate and review the show wherever you listen. Also, you should be following us on Instagram at Second Nature Earth, especially now in the downtime between seasons. We'll still be releasing new stuff there. So check it out. That's it. That is a wrap on season three, my friends. We'll catch you back here in a bit. Keep doing the good work. Bye.

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