Microplastics: How Do They Get Into Our Bodies? And What We Can Do About It?

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June 10, 2025

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Microplastics seem to be everywhere, inside and outside our bodies. These micro and nano particles are shedding from our clothes, our tires, food packaging — basically anywhere there's plastic. People, animals, and plants are consuming these microplastics, thereby complicating the issue and contributing to health problems. But what health issues? And how do we avoid them?

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The science is still a work in progress, but today, we're finding out what we know so far. We’re going to find out from an actual scientist what we know and don’t know about the health implications of microplastics and what we can do about it. And we’re going to try our best to find our way to a place of understanding without complete overwhelm.

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Here are some of the people you'll hear from in this episode:

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Episode Credits

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Listener contributions: Kylie Kovatch, Artie Sadahiro, Nicole Collins, Parisa Golchoubian, Brian Stancheski
Episode expert: Prof. Dr. Barbro Melgert
Editing and engineer: Evan Goodchild‍
Hosting and production: Katelan Cunningham

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Citations and Further Reading

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Full Transcript

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Katelan (00:00):

Welcome back to Second Nature, a podcast from Commons. Commons is the app that over 100,000 sustainably minded people use to buy less and feel good about what they buy. And on this show, we talk to people about how they're living sustainably in an unsustainable world. Have you ever taken a bite out of a tire or nibbled on your workout leggings? How about taking a slice out of your plastic cutting board? Me neither. But little specs of these petro delicacies have likely made their way inside us in the form of micro and nanoplastics. A microplastic is no bigger than a short grain of rice, or the width of a pea and nanoplastics are way smaller, smaller than the width of a human hair. The thing with these tiny plastic particles is that they're so small, nearly invisible, and yet they're seemingly infinite.

Katelan (01:06):

These factors can make the scale of this problem very hard to grasp, not just for everyday people, but for scientists too. Maybe you've heard about microplastics popping up everywhere from human bodies to glaciers, and you're thinking, well, that is massive. I can't even comprehend that. Plus everything else is on fire, so tiny plastics are the least of my worries. On the other hand, maybe you felt completely defeated by the impossibility of trying to escape them. For most of us, the issue of microplastics feels like a vast, muddy gray area that's hopeless to try and wade through without feeling completely defeated. Or maybe I'm just projecting. Maybe it's just me. It's not just me. Right?

Katelan (01:54):

Today on the show, we're going to get our bearings. We're gonna figure out where all these microplastics are coming from and how they're getting inside us. We're gonna find out from an actual scientist what we know and don't know about the health implications of microplastics and what we can do about it. And of course, we're also gonna talk about fossil fuels and big plastic, and we're gonna do all this while trying our best to find a place of understanding without being completely overwhelmed. I think we can do it. I'm Katelan Cunningham, your host, and as ever, I will be your guide. Here we go.

Katelan (02:39):

Some microplastics start out tiny like glitter or those little plastic beads in some face scrubs in cosmetics, but most microplastics and nanoplastics are shed from bigger pieces of plastic to understand how microplastics got everywhere. We have to reckon with all the things in our lives that are made of plastic. Just for a minute right now, I want you to look around and start counting up or taking note of all the plastic things you see. If you're at a desk, your keyboard is probably plastic, your pen, maybe your cup or even the desk itself. If you're working out, your sneakers are almost certainly made from plastic and your workout clothes probably are too. How about your water bottle? If you're on your lunch break, did you pack your sandwich in the plastic bag? Eating your salad with a plastic fork if you're driving, your steering wheel is probably made of plastic, along with the fabric on your seats and the tires on the road.

Katelan (03:44):

From a strictly performance standpoint, if you ignore for a second, the bajillions of microplastics being shed from all the stuff, and how much of it's piled up in landfills and in the ocean just for a second, ignore all that plastic is kind of impressive. It's really impressive. What other material could you use to make clothes, cars, and food packaging? Think about it. It can be stretchy, rigid, durable, bendable, clear, opaque, shiny, metallic. It's lightweight, it's waterproof, it's not fragile. Plus it's cheap. There's no other material out there that can do all of that. So it's not totally surprising that plastic took off in the way that it did. So many industries, clothing, furniture, packaging over time, they've replaced glass, wood, and other natural materials with plastic.

Katelan (04:41):

The first synthetic plastic was produced in 1907. It was called Bake Light. By the 1950s, plastic production had really picked up, and it really hasn't stopped since. In the past 20 years, plastic production has more than doubled with thousands of types of plastic being developed and produced over the past century. But what we didn't know in the early 19 hundreds, and even if we did it may have not mattered, is that most often where there are plastics, there are microplastics. And the thing about plastic is that no matter its size, it's a practically forever kind of thing. It can take hundreds of years to completely break down, and even then it only becomes smaller pieces of plastic over time. There's some potential progress with certain bacteria evolving to break down plastic. But for now, every piece of plastic that's ever been made still exists. It's jaw dropping. Whenever I think about it from the bake light plastic used to make 1907 phones to your first pair of sneakers, all the pieces of all our plastic stuff is still out there. Less than 9% of it got recycled into something new, so the rest of it is in a landfill, a waterway or our bodies.

Katelan (06:06):

Very broadly, the areas of our lives where we're exposed to microplastics are in the air, in the water, and in our food. In each of these areas, microplastics are coming from various sources in the air outside. Most microplastic pollution comes from the road. Tires and brakes use plastic for traction. And with heat plus abrasion little pieces of plastic shut off onto the roadways and the air, the air inside can have just as many if not more microplastics. Isn't that crazy? Most of these come from synthetic fibers used to make fabric for things like clothes or carpets or upholstery or bedding. In our drinking water, microplastics have made their way from wastewater and runoff into the taps. They come from lots of places like the road runoff that we mentioned with the tire microplastics or wastewater from our washing machines after we wash synthetic clothing. Some studies have found that water from plastic water bottles has a higher concentration of microplastics or nanoplastics with microplastics in the air and water. You can imagine that it ends up in our food.

Katelan (07:19):

Studies have found microplastics in most proteins, including plant-based proteins, fruits, vegetables, even salt and sugar. Now, what happens when microplastics get inside us, besides the fact that plastic is a non-organic material that doesn't break down, a lot of plastic can be made from chemicals that are actually harmful, the science is still relatively new, so we need more evidence to know if it's a toxicity thing or just the sheer buildup of plastic that's causing health issues. But studies show that microplastics are definitely impacting our health. Microplastics can be a risk for cardiovascular disease, lung disorders, and other serious health issues like strokes. They could even be endocrine disruptors and affect our fertility or be tied to cancer. I'm a nineties kid and when I was in school, it was ingrained in us how bad smoking was for our health. We learned how to say no and not give any peer pressure, and it's just actually enraging how pervasive plastic is and in turn, how pervasive microplastics are. We can't just say no despite the fact that they're affecting our health, but there are definitely things we can do to limit our microplastic exposure. So let's start getting into that. First, we ask you how you are handling your microplastics concerns in your own lives.

Elena (08:54):

I learned that water also has microplastics, but it is less damaging than buying plastic bottles that it filled with plastic and microplastic. It's been years and years that I don't buy, uh, plastic bottles because I discovered that it contains microplastics or products even to buy packaging. There are not bit of plastic that are organic in general, and even clothes that it's so important because if we wash clothes, for example, and all the microplastic goes into the water, that's a problem. Yes, and that's something we can change too. In schools and garments, they don't talk about it. There is no such thing as limitation on how much microplastic we put into the world. Uh, we should ban things that produce microplastic because otherwise they continue to disintegrate and go into the air, into the water. But we don't because there is no law that talks about it. So no limitation at all.

Elizabeth (09:55):

Learning more about how plastic affects our bodies and our health has changed how I approach a lot of things in my life. I check the labels of clothing. I try to get more natural fibers like cotton and linen. I really try to stay away from polyester and other forms of plastic that come in clothing. I also avoid single use plastics whenever I can. I primarily use glass or stainless steel in my kitchen. I really avoid having plastic plates, utensils, cups, et cetera. I don't think many of my family and friends think about the risk of plastic on their health, and it's not because of lack of care or that they just don't see it as a problem. I think it's really hard when we live in a capitalistic world like we do, to really stop and think about those things when everybody has so many more concerns on their minds. And so for many people thinking about replacing their plastic food items with glass or ceramic or stainless steel, that's kind of the last worry on their mind when, you know, they're just thinking about how to get through the next week.

Kenzie (11:00):

I have a lot of feelings about microplastics. It's sort of like being haunted because I just have this vague awareness that microplastics are everywhere. You know, I don't think there's a place on earth that scientists have found where microplastics still aren't, and that's terrifying, and I don't know what to do about that. We're gonna be known as the era of plastic.

Sameera (11:29):

Definitely been thinking a lot in our household about plastics and how to minimize both plastic use as well as plastic exposure. You know, knowing that a lot of plastics contain chemicals that are known endocrine disruptors. You know, I'm a reproductive health specialist, so I see the effects of endocrine disruptors in my patients all the time. And so trying to figure out, you know, how we can do the whole reduce, reuse, recycle, knowing what we know about plastic recycling and how it's sort of not really a thing at this point. We are trying to use as much glass and metal as possible, reuse those things. Um, and then talking about how we can maybe reduce how much stuff comes into our house in plastic packaging. So we found a local food co-op that has, um, you know, bulk bins and reusable containers that you can return to the co-op.

Sameera (12:26):

Trying to do a little bit more of that with the recognition that, you know, it's hard, it's hard to be put out of your way on a busy schedule when it's easy to go to like the local grocery store to then schlep several miles out of your way to go to the co-op or, you know, a different grocery store that will meet more of your sustainability needs. It's a choice. And so, you know, also shifting when and how we do the groceries has been something that we've been kind of talking about and looking into to see if it's sustainable for us from a behavioral standpoint.

Barbro (12:59):

All of this information has definitely motivated me to reduce the amount of plastic that I use and that I have in my home, particularly in my kitchen. I would say environmental issues can seem so big and overwhelming, and this is one area where making changes in your life does actually protect you on a personal level, which at least helps me sleep a little bit at night. It's hard though because there's a lot of environments where we don't have full control and it's practically impossible, at least in the US to never be exposed to plastic. So I try as much as I can, but I know it won't be perfect without some systemic society-wide changes. Um, and so that's kind of the type of energy I try to bring in my work on this issue.

Katelan (13:47):

It wasn't really until the early 2000s that scientists started to research and investigate microplastics as a big problem. Early on, the focus was mainly on the impact to marine life. But we've since expanded our understanding of where microplastics are, where they're coming from, and we're starting to better understand how they affect our health. That's where today's expert comes in. Dr. Barbro Melghert is a lung researcher and professor of respiratory immunology at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands. She studies how our lungs interact with the environment, particularly air pollutants, which is where microplastics come in. Hi Barbara. Thanks for coming on the show.

Barbro (14:32):

Hi, nice to meet you.

Katelan (14:34):

A lot of your work focuses on the effects of microplastics when there inhaled into our lungs of the microplastics in our bodies. Do we have a sense of what percentage might be inhaled through our nose and mouth as opposed to consume through food and drink?

Barbro (14:51):

Oh, that's a very good question, and that's one that I've also wondered about and looked in literature for. And it's very difficult to do that modeling because there's just not enough data to do that. But the experts who do this modeling say that at least 50% of our intake is through inhalation. So that's the number I always give. But it doesn't take into account the really, really small plastic particles nanoplastics because we just can't measure them. Well,

Katelan (15:24):

So inside a lot of the microplastics in the air are coming from textiles and outside, a lot of them are coming from tires. Is that right?

Barbro (15:33):

Correct. So at, at least for the Netherlands, right, I know that a study done by, uh, a governmental agent here in the Netherlands is looked at what is the percentage of plastics outdoors? And they found that most of it was from, um, car tires. Then agricultural plastic was an important component in textiles, then I think in the third or fourth place. So they didn't look specifically at indoor air pollution, but all the studies all over the world that look at indoor versus outdoor, they'll show that indoor has much higher levels and that most of it is from textiles. Yes,

Katelan (16:12):

Doctors and scientists have found microplastics in our blood and placenta in all kinds of places, but it seems like it's still a little bit unclear what the health effects are. It seems like we're still figuring that out. Um, I wanted to share this question from Elizabeth in Davenport, Iowa who asked,

Barbro (16:30):

What are the long-term consequences going to be of microplastics being in every part of our body At this point, I would love to know how in 10 to 20 years we're going to see the effects of microplastics even further and, and what kind of health issues we're all going to be facing because of our chronic exposure to plastics?

Barbro (16:49):

Yeah, that's a very important question, and I wish I had the answer <laugh>, but yeah, we're working on that, right? We don't know. The researchers only do these experiments, but that is all short term and usually with fairly high concentration. So that's very difficult to translate to long-term low exposure. What we do know is from people in occupational settings. So people who work in plastics industries, they have very high exposure, and then we see that a good percentage of people develop respiratory problems. But how that translates to the levels in our homes, that is very difficult. And I, one, one more remark to make about that is it's not just the plastic particles. Honestly, I think that the plastic particles are similar to all the other particles that we're being exposed to, that they have some effect. But as long as you keep your exposure down, you're relatively safe.

Barbro (17:53):

The problem with plastic is the chemicals that are inside plastic that can reach out. There's so many unknown chemicals in plastic that have endocrine disrupting, uh, properties that have cancer inducing properties. And they can also reach out of these microplastics and, and that combination or these chemicals by themselves, that low level exposure. It's impossible to answer this question, but I think it's a really important question and probably in 20 years will be able to say, oh, this is what is probably happening. We should have done something. Mm. So that, that's my great fear, right, that in 20 years, that Right, we say, oh, we should have done more 20 years ago.

Katelan (18:39):

Yeah. You mentioned, you know, one thing we can do is just try to limit our plastic exposure. Now we interact with plastic seemingly everywhere. Even if it's not directly in front of you, the supply chain of the food that got to you or of the items that got to you probably involve plastic. Are there places in our homes or elsewhere in our lives that are particularly prone to creating an environment with microplastics? What should we specifically be looking out for?

Barbro (19:07):

So if we're talking about indoor microplastics, which are mostly from textiles, then the quality of the textile, the fibers being used, is really important. So this tendency of people to go to really cheap brands, they use fibers of really bad quality. So they have very short filaments that easily break off and, and are distributed in our homes. But the problem is that if something is expensive, it's not necessarily good quality that makes it really difficult for consumers to make these decisions. So I think there's a, um, a role for a policy and, and government here is to come up with labels that tell you something about the quality of what you're buying. Um, so you can make informed decisions of what you want to buy. But I think the most important one is don't buy plastic. The more we buy, the more will drive production and, and the more the plastic industry will, will, uh, keep investing in making more plastic and, and trying to make money out of it.

Katelan (20:15):

Should we be looking for fabrics that are, I'm assuming not synthetic, right? You're kind of like looking for natural fibers.

Barbro (20:23):

Yes. Um, there is one caveat, however, some of the chemicals used in, uh, synthetic fabrics are also used in natural fibers. Some of the colors, some of them UV protection. You can also find that in wool. So again, very difficult for people to make informed decisions. Um, I, I guess I would say I'm pleading against just adding chemicals to everything <laugh> without really knowing their health effects.

Katelan (20:53):

Yeah, I mean it's, it's kind of a new way, at least for, you've been studying this for a while, so it's probably not new to you at all, but it's kind of a new way to think. You know, you buy food and drink and you're kind of thinking, okay, this is going inside my body. But even thinking about the thing that the food was wrapped in or your clothes or your rug, like thinking about what that's going to do when a, when little pieces of it are inside of you is kind of a new thing to think about.

Barbro (21:18):

Exactly. For me, indeed was new as well. Um, and it lead to implementing changes in my home. So I have no idea whether that makes any difference, but it gives me a good feeling. Right. Like I I'm taking control.

Katelan (21:35):

Yeah. Yeah. And especially, I mean, I guess <laugh> maybe a part of the silver lining that, that so many microplastics come from inside is that we can control our inside environment much more than we can control our outside environments.

Barbro (21:48):

That's a very good point. Indeed. And I, I keep telling people to ventilate not just because of the microplastic, but all the other exposures in your home. You can dilute them out. So unless you're living right next to a very crowded, um, highway or living in the middle of, uh, Los Angeles or Mexico City, then don't ventilate during the day. But during the night when the levels are lower, another thing you could do is vacuum clean. That has been shown to lower the amount of microplastic. So there are some things that you can do and they're easy, right? So why not do them?

Katelan (22:26):

One thing I do is not wear shoes inside. Whenever I was reading about the tires, I was like, this is probably also good for that. 'cause if we walk the dog and we walk on the street where there's tire residue, maybe that's good to not wear your shoes inside.

Barbro (22:39):

Well, actually, not just for that, but also for, uh, bringing in pesticides. And I just read this other paper that shows that we bring in all these things, pesticide chemicals, microplastic through our shoes. So yeah, if that makes a big difference to your overall exposure, I don't know, but at least it gives you a feeling of control, right? A positive boost. And I think that's important as well.

Katelan (23:05):

A common question we get is how do we get rid of the microplastics that are already inside of us? Uh, Lindsey from Wheaton, Maryland ask,

Lindsey (23:14):

How do I get this out of me? I didn't ask for it. I don't want it. It can have negative health consequences. Like what are we doing to rid ourselves of microplastics? Or is there even a way to do that?

Barbro (23:28):

Another excellent question, and I think there isn't any data to answer this question. So we know, for instance, speaking of the lung, right? I mean, I'm, I'm a lung person, that there are ways that the lung can get rid of things. We inhale through specialized cells that have little hairs that move mucus up to your mouth so you clean the lining of your lungs. So I'm assuming that will also help with inhaled microplastics, but how we have no idea how efficient this is that as, as far as I know, hasn't been characterized yet. Um, if the particles are really small, then of course they can go through the barrier of the lung, they get into your blood. They might also get out in, um, through your kidneys or your liver. These things have been modeled, but it's very little data to, to really answer this question.

Barbro (24:24):

And of course for the gut it's a little bit different because the gut has a another hole at the, uh, at the other end, uh, that gets rid of stuff. So there it seems quite like, okay, if it doesn't get, uh, transported through the, the intestinal barrier, then at some point you will just move it out for the lung. It's a little bit more complicated. Uh, and for things that get through your skin, which is another possible way of getting microplastics into your body, I guess that would be similar as to when once it has gone into the blood through the intestinal lung.

Katelan (25:01):

Has there been any modeling or study tracking the amount of microplastics in someone's body over time? Like do we know that it builds up?

Barbro (25:10):

As far as I'm aware that those studies have not been done yet, but I do know that in the Netherlands, one of those studies is, um, being scheduled or or being performed. So they have radio labeled plastic and they're going to give that orally to people to see where it goes. And so that will give, I think, important answers. Wow. Um, as to whether we can actually get rid of it again or whether it's sort of get stuck somewhere.

Katelan (25:43):

Some of your research has been funded by the Dutch government, which is great. Which countries do you believe are sort of taking microplastic seriously? What would you like to see governments do or study to make progress on microplastics and even sort of regulations as well?

Barbro (26:01):

Yeah, so we've been very lucky in the Netherlands because, um, they've recognized that this is a potential new health concern. So they've been funding, uh, research. Um, it's on their agenda. It's now also dripping towards Europe. So there are new European calls from more research. There are various European consortias while looking into this. I think in Europe at least the governments realize that this is something that needs to be investigated. There are a lot of citizens in, in countries in Asia that are also concerned, c amount of pollution in their environment. But I have no idea how much, um, research is being funded there. I I hope China will start looking into this as well, because there are many studies coming out of China looking at levels of microplastics, health effects of microplastics, and of course, China is a huge producer of plastics, so <laugh>.

Katelan (27:00):

Right, right.

Barbro (27:01):

And it would be good if, if that can somehow lead to better production, less production, uh, more sustainable production. I must say that, that my, um, that I'm a bit concerned about the us

Katelan (27:16):

Me too.

Barbro (27:17):

I, I hope that there will be money for this kind of research, but I don't have a high hope at the moment, <laugh>.

Katelan (27:26):

Right.

Barbro (27:26):

If I can be a little bit political about this, <laugh>.

Katelan (27:30):

Absolutely. What kind of regulations would you like to see or expect to see from the European, the us, the Chinese governments? What kinds of things could we start implementing hypothetically to help either mediate the amount of microplastics currently in, in the air, right, or stop the amount of microplastics being produced in the first place?

Barbro (27:51):

The problem is, is that it's really difficult to measure microplastics. So we don't have sensors that can tell us, oh, there are too many microplastics here. We have to do something. Um, of course, um, the European Union already has the mandate about single use plastic. So that's why we don't have any plastic straws anymore. And we're not allowed to use single use plastic anymore. At least we have to pay more for it. That's a first step. Um, also the Netherlands has been very vocal and effective in reducing plastic from cosmetics. So that ban is slowly getting into effect. We're up against a lot of plastic. So, and it's, it's something that's wonderful material, right? It's, you can make anything outta it. It's cheap. It's, it's, it's moldable it. So, so we can't really do without, so we should be more sustainable about that. So I think the, the, the ban on single use plastic is a good one because we can all bring a cup. You don't have to constantly use a, a plastic one, right? But yeah, so I think we need a lot more discussion to be able to come up with good solutions there and that that can span the world.

Katelan (29:10):

Well, thank you very, very much for coming on the show. I could ask you 30 more questions, <laugh>, but I'm going to let you go. I really appreciate it.

Barbro (29:19):

Thank you very much for the interest and I always happy, uh, to, uh, boost awareness for this problem.

Katelan (29:30):

Hearing that there are still a lot of open questions around microplastics and our health might be a little bit unsettling, but like Barbara mentioned, we can take control where we can and we can be ready and waiting to take action when new science and research comes out. Not only that, we can support and demand more financing for this kind of research. Oh, and I also wanted to pass along a resource that Barbara shared with me. I think y'all might be into it. It's called the MPI index. It's an academic paper put together by some of her colleagues, and it compares how different types of plastic degrade into microplastics over time. So if you're into that kind of thing, we've link to it in the show notes. Of course, there's more we can do further up the supply chain to prevent microplastics. This like pretty much every environmental issue it seems is a systemic issue. I called up Commons founder, Sanchali Seth Pal to talk about how we can fight the system.

Katelan (30:39):

Hey Sanchali, let's talk microplastics.

Sanchali (30:41):

Let's get into it.

Katelan (30:43):

All right. So we talked earlier about how sort of defeating it is that microplastics are coming from everywhere from water pipes to the machinery used to process our food. They're essentially systemic. So I'm wondering what can we do or what is already being done to change the system?

Sanchali (31:00):

Well, of course the first thing we can do is try to stop plastic at its source. This is for our own health, but also for systemic reasons. We can try to opt out of plastic as much as possible to lower demand for plastic and the companies that rely on it. So when we do things like choose reusables, opt to buy from refill or bulk stores, or even bring our own takeout containers to restaurants, we are reducing demand for plastic.

Katelan (31:25):

But when we look at the big picture, do these individual actions really matter that much?

Sanchali (31:30):

It's a good question. It can feel like, you know, just my personal actions don't matter that much. But the interesting thing is that companies do actually change their behavior to respond to consumer demands when enough consumers voice them.

Katelan (31:43):

When have we actually seen this work?

Sanchali (31:46):

Well, let's think back to 2018. Plastic straws were plastic enemy number one with all of the public pressure. Starbucks announced it would work towards eliminating plastic straws in its stores.

Katelan (31:59):

Plastic straws are actually a really interesting example because they're small and they can't be recycled. So they're definitely turning into microplastics as they're sitting in landfills and waterways.

Sanchali (32:10):

Exactly. And since 2018, Starbucks has actually started rolling out straw list lids, bioplastic straws, and other solutions to avoid single use plastic straws. And yeah, a straw isn't the biggest impact in the world, but with a company that size, the impact is notable. They could eliminate a billion plastic straws per year.

Katelan (32:29):

So our choices really can influence these big companies.

Sanchali (32:32):

Exactly. When a lot of us are making these choices, we can make an impact and we can increase our chances of making an impact when we actually tackle microplastics with our communities. This can start by just talking to folks to make them more aware of the issue, having conversations like improving water filtration at schools, or switching the little league team to metal water bottles, or even campaigning our representatives to take action on microplastics.

Katelan (32:58):

'cause when we know better, we can do better

Sanchali (33:00):

For sure. When we do avoid plastic, that practice, it becomes a constant reminder of how much plastic there is out there and how much we're fighting for. And it can be one of the things that reminds us to vote it out of our communities when we can.

Katelan (33:14):

I actually voted on a couple plastic laws here in Los Angeles over the past several years.

Sanchali (33:19):

Yeah, you're not the only one. Across the US over 500 cities have single use plastic bag bans and 12 states have bans.

Katelan (33:27):

Do we know if these bans are actually doing anything?

Sanchali (33:30):

They are. There was a study last year looking at the bans in New Jersey, Vermont, Philadelphia, Portland, and Santa Barbara. Across these five locations, the bands have reduced plastic bag consumption by 6 billion bags per year. Apparently that's enough to circle the earth 42 times.

Katelan (33:47):

That's amazing. And it's also great news because plastic bags, like plastic straws are not easy to recycle and basically impossible to recycle. So it's a great place to start.

Sanchali (33:57):

It is a great place to start. We can't forget that the origin of all microplastics and all synthetic plastic is big oil.

Katelan (34:05):

They're the bad guys.

Sanchali (34:06):

They know what they're doing too. The world's largest fossil fuel and chemical companies, including Exxon, bp, shell, Dow Chemical and DuPont are actively lobbying against stronger regulations on microplastic chemicals. They did it, for instance, in the UN Stop Home Convention where a proposal was out to regulate toxic and persistent chemicals in microplastics and in the UN Global Plastics Treaty, which was making an effort to reduce plastic production.

Katelan (34:33):

You know, I've also heard that as we switch to more renewable energy and need fossil fuels less for energy, that the fossil fuel industry is planning to rev up plastic production to sort of compensate for their potential losses.

Sanchali (34:46):

That is super interesting and honestly makes sense because plastics are really profitable. According to the International Energy Agency, plastics are on track to drive half of oil demand by 2050. That's more than trucks, aviation and shipping. And notably, big oil isn't lobbying against recycling plastic because recycling plastic doesn't affect their bottom lines.

Katelan (35:08):

Wow. That is very telling. Is there a good guy in all this besides us trying to use less plastic? Are there any bigger groups or governments going after the fossil fuel industry and their onslaught of plastic?

Sanchali (35:21):

Well, as we mentioned before, the UN is really trying. In 2022, they did adopt a historic resolution to come up with legally binding rules on plastic pollution, including microplastics with over 150 countries involved.

Katelan (35:36):

So they adopted a resolution to come up with some laws, but there are no actual laws yet. Right.

Sanchali (35:43):

Yeah, that is fair. It is very slow going. The next meeting is in Switzerland in August, and folks in the group have expressed a lot of frustration about how slow the negotiations are. So we should definitely keep our eyes on this and keep the pressure on to get stuff done. The resolution they're thinking about will explicitly call out microplastic pollution and the impact of plastic pollution on the environment, as well as the need for governance and long-term elimination of plastic

Katelan (36:09):

Outside the un. It seems like the EU is hopefully pushing things forward here. Barbara shared with me that the EU is a big driver of funding and policy development for microplastics and environmental health. She specifically called out Germany, France, and the Netherlands as doing a lot of research specifically in air, water, and food and human health. And she said that Norway and Sweden are investing a lot in environmental monitoring of microplastics.

Sanchali (36:35):

That is great to hear. I have also heard that Canada, China, and Australia are contributing a bunch of research, and it's kind of exciting to see governments prioritize this kind of work, but it makes me wonder what makes them prioritize it. Did Barbara say anything about why the Dutch government was funding her work?

Katelan (36:53):

She said that for a long time in the Netherlands, there's been this tradition of environmental awareness and that the country has a deep cultural connection to water and land management. They also rely a lot on international trade, which exposes them to a lot of pollution risks like plastic. So she said that microplastics fits into this broader focus that the country has on sustainability, public health and innovation, which is why they're prioritizing research that combines environmental science and public health.

Sanchali (37:24):

We still have so much to learn. I am both really scared and excited to see what comes out of this research, and I'm really grateful we have folks like Barbara working on it.

Katelan (37:35):

Me too. And I hope we move a little bit more quickly soon,

Sanchali (37:39):

And when we do, we will definitely report back here on the show.

Katelan (37:42):

You bet. Thanks as always. And Charlie. Thanks,

Sanchali (37:45):

Caitlin.

Katelan (37:52):

So let's recap some actionable takeaways. What can we do to limit our exposure to microplastics in our home and our communities? Personally, we can cut out plastic water bottles. We can avoid using plastic in our kitchens where we can, especially in places that are gonna be hot or have high traction. Think plastic cutting boards, plastic utensils, especially the ones used to cook hot food, plastic dishes in the microwave. Even staying on top of the dust in your home, avoiding wearing shoes inside and using an air purifier can help. You can also start phasing out synthetic fibers where you can in your clothes, but also in high traffic areas of your home, like rugs, carpets, bedding, and honestly, I know it's hard, but another thing we can do for ourselves is to try not to stress too much. Stress isn't healthy, so do what you can when you can. You know,

Katelan (38:49):

In our families and our communities, we can talk about microplastics. It's hard not to feel like a nag, I get it. But we have an episode from last season to help with that. It's called Ripple Effects, how to convince people in your life to live more sustainably. You could also consider gifting people in your life some sustainable swaps if you think they'll use it, but they just need a nudge. Give your workout buddy a stainless steel water bottle to replace their single use plastic ones or gift your foodie friend, a wood cutting board to swap out their plastic one. And within our city's states and countries, we can advocate and vote for legislation to cut down on single use plastic and push for stronger regulations on plastic use at large. We can also support and advocate for microplastics research. A lot of scientific efforts are in dire straits here in the us, so the more vocal we can be about this important research, the better. One of the biggest things we can do right now is making more people aware of them, where they're coming from, and how they're impacting us. If you know someone who may be interested to learn more about that stuff, send them this episode. On today's episode. You heard from [credits]

Katelan (40:15):

This episode and every episode of Second Nature is edited and engineered by Evan Goodchild. It was written and produced by me, Katelan Cunningham. Thanks so much for listening. We really appreciate you. Catch you back here next week.

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Microplastics: How Do They Get Into Our Bodies? And What We Can Do About It?

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Microplastics seem to be everywhere, inside and outside our bodies. These micro and nano particles are shedding from our clothes, our tires, food packaging — basically anywhere there's plastic. People, animals, and plants are consuming these microplastics, thereby complicating the issue and contributing to health problems. But what health issues? And how do we avoid them?

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The science is still a work in progress, but today, we're finding out what we know so far. We’re going to find out from an actual scientist what we know and don’t know about the health implications of microplastics and what we can do about it. And we’re going to try our best to find our way to a place of understanding without complete overwhelm.

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Here are some of the people you'll hear from in this episode:

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Episode Credits

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Listener contributions: Kylie Kovatch, Artie Sadahiro, Nicole Collins, Parisa Golchoubian, Brian Stancheski
Episode expert: Prof. Dr. Barbro Melgert
Editing and engineer: Evan Goodchild‍
Hosting and production: Katelan Cunningham

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Citations and Further Reading

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Full Transcript

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Katelan (00:00):

Welcome back to Second Nature, a podcast from Commons. Commons is the app that over 100,000 sustainably minded people use to buy less and feel good about what they buy. And on this show, we talk to people about how they're living sustainably in an unsustainable world. Have you ever taken a bite out of a tire or nibbled on your workout leggings? How about taking a slice out of your plastic cutting board? Me neither. But little specs of these petro delicacies have likely made their way inside us in the form of micro and nanoplastics. A microplastic is no bigger than a short grain of rice, or the width of a pea and nanoplastics are way smaller, smaller than the width of a human hair. The thing with these tiny plastic particles is that they're so small, nearly invisible, and yet they're seemingly infinite.

Katelan (01:06):

These factors can make the scale of this problem very hard to grasp, not just for everyday people, but for scientists too. Maybe you've heard about microplastics popping up everywhere from human bodies to glaciers, and you're thinking, well, that is massive. I can't even comprehend that. Plus everything else is on fire, so tiny plastics are the least of my worries. On the other hand, maybe you felt completely defeated by the impossibility of trying to escape them. For most of us, the issue of microplastics feels like a vast, muddy gray area that's hopeless to try and wade through without feeling completely defeated. Or maybe I'm just projecting. Maybe it's just me. It's not just me. Right?

Katelan (01:54):

Today on the show, we're going to get our bearings. We're gonna figure out where all these microplastics are coming from and how they're getting inside us. We're gonna find out from an actual scientist what we know and don't know about the health implications of microplastics and what we can do about it. And of course, we're also gonna talk about fossil fuels and big plastic, and we're gonna do all this while trying our best to find a place of understanding without being completely overwhelmed. I think we can do it. I'm Katelan Cunningham, your host, and as ever, I will be your guide. Here we go.

Katelan (02:39):

Some microplastics start out tiny like glitter or those little plastic beads in some face scrubs in cosmetics, but most microplastics and nanoplastics are shed from bigger pieces of plastic to understand how microplastics got everywhere. We have to reckon with all the things in our lives that are made of plastic. Just for a minute right now, I want you to look around and start counting up or taking note of all the plastic things you see. If you're at a desk, your keyboard is probably plastic, your pen, maybe your cup or even the desk itself. If you're working out, your sneakers are almost certainly made from plastic and your workout clothes probably are too. How about your water bottle? If you're on your lunch break, did you pack your sandwich in the plastic bag? Eating your salad with a plastic fork if you're driving, your steering wheel is probably made of plastic, along with the fabric on your seats and the tires on the road.

Katelan (03:44):

From a strictly performance standpoint, if you ignore for a second, the bajillions of microplastics being shed from all the stuff, and how much of it's piled up in landfills and in the ocean just for a second, ignore all that plastic is kind of impressive. It's really impressive. What other material could you use to make clothes, cars, and food packaging? Think about it. It can be stretchy, rigid, durable, bendable, clear, opaque, shiny, metallic. It's lightweight, it's waterproof, it's not fragile. Plus it's cheap. There's no other material out there that can do all of that. So it's not totally surprising that plastic took off in the way that it did. So many industries, clothing, furniture, packaging over time, they've replaced glass, wood, and other natural materials with plastic.

Katelan (04:41):

The first synthetic plastic was produced in 1907. It was called Bake Light. By the 1950s, plastic production had really picked up, and it really hasn't stopped since. In the past 20 years, plastic production has more than doubled with thousands of types of plastic being developed and produced over the past century. But what we didn't know in the early 19 hundreds, and even if we did it may have not mattered, is that most often where there are plastics, there are microplastics. And the thing about plastic is that no matter its size, it's a practically forever kind of thing. It can take hundreds of years to completely break down, and even then it only becomes smaller pieces of plastic over time. There's some potential progress with certain bacteria evolving to break down plastic. But for now, every piece of plastic that's ever been made still exists. It's jaw dropping. Whenever I think about it from the bake light plastic used to make 1907 phones to your first pair of sneakers, all the pieces of all our plastic stuff is still out there. Less than 9% of it got recycled into something new, so the rest of it is in a landfill, a waterway or our bodies.

Katelan (06:06):

Very broadly, the areas of our lives where we're exposed to microplastics are in the air, in the water, and in our food. In each of these areas, microplastics are coming from various sources in the air outside. Most microplastic pollution comes from the road. Tires and brakes use plastic for traction. And with heat plus abrasion little pieces of plastic shut off onto the roadways and the air, the air inside can have just as many if not more microplastics. Isn't that crazy? Most of these come from synthetic fibers used to make fabric for things like clothes or carpets or upholstery or bedding. In our drinking water, microplastics have made their way from wastewater and runoff into the taps. They come from lots of places like the road runoff that we mentioned with the tire microplastics or wastewater from our washing machines after we wash synthetic clothing. Some studies have found that water from plastic water bottles has a higher concentration of microplastics or nanoplastics with microplastics in the air and water. You can imagine that it ends up in our food.

Katelan (07:19):

Studies have found microplastics in most proteins, including plant-based proteins, fruits, vegetables, even salt and sugar. Now, what happens when microplastics get inside us, besides the fact that plastic is a non-organic material that doesn't break down, a lot of plastic can be made from chemicals that are actually harmful, the science is still relatively new, so we need more evidence to know if it's a toxicity thing or just the sheer buildup of plastic that's causing health issues. But studies show that microplastics are definitely impacting our health. Microplastics can be a risk for cardiovascular disease, lung disorders, and other serious health issues like strokes. They could even be endocrine disruptors and affect our fertility or be tied to cancer. I'm a nineties kid and when I was in school, it was ingrained in us how bad smoking was for our health. We learned how to say no and not give any peer pressure, and it's just actually enraging how pervasive plastic is and in turn, how pervasive microplastics are. We can't just say no despite the fact that they're affecting our health, but there are definitely things we can do to limit our microplastic exposure. So let's start getting into that. First, we ask you how you are handling your microplastics concerns in your own lives.

Elena (08:54):

I learned that water also has microplastics, but it is less damaging than buying plastic bottles that it filled with plastic and microplastic. It's been years and years that I don't buy, uh, plastic bottles because I discovered that it contains microplastics or products even to buy packaging. There are not bit of plastic that are organic in general, and even clothes that it's so important because if we wash clothes, for example, and all the microplastic goes into the water, that's a problem. Yes, and that's something we can change too. In schools and garments, they don't talk about it. There is no such thing as limitation on how much microplastic we put into the world. Uh, we should ban things that produce microplastic because otherwise they continue to disintegrate and go into the air, into the water. But we don't because there is no law that talks about it. So no limitation at all.

Elizabeth (09:55):

Learning more about how plastic affects our bodies and our health has changed how I approach a lot of things in my life. I check the labels of clothing. I try to get more natural fibers like cotton and linen. I really try to stay away from polyester and other forms of plastic that come in clothing. I also avoid single use plastics whenever I can. I primarily use glass or stainless steel in my kitchen. I really avoid having plastic plates, utensils, cups, et cetera. I don't think many of my family and friends think about the risk of plastic on their health, and it's not because of lack of care or that they just don't see it as a problem. I think it's really hard when we live in a capitalistic world like we do, to really stop and think about those things when everybody has so many more concerns on their minds. And so for many people thinking about replacing their plastic food items with glass or ceramic or stainless steel, that's kind of the last worry on their mind when, you know, they're just thinking about how to get through the next week.

Kenzie (11:00):

I have a lot of feelings about microplastics. It's sort of like being haunted because I just have this vague awareness that microplastics are everywhere. You know, I don't think there's a place on earth that scientists have found where microplastics still aren't, and that's terrifying, and I don't know what to do about that. We're gonna be known as the era of plastic.

Sameera (11:29):

Definitely been thinking a lot in our household about plastics and how to minimize both plastic use as well as plastic exposure. You know, knowing that a lot of plastics contain chemicals that are known endocrine disruptors. You know, I'm a reproductive health specialist, so I see the effects of endocrine disruptors in my patients all the time. And so trying to figure out, you know, how we can do the whole reduce, reuse, recycle, knowing what we know about plastic recycling and how it's sort of not really a thing at this point. We are trying to use as much glass and metal as possible, reuse those things. Um, and then talking about how we can maybe reduce how much stuff comes into our house in plastic packaging. So we found a local food co-op that has, um, you know, bulk bins and reusable containers that you can return to the co-op.

Sameera (12:26):

Trying to do a little bit more of that with the recognition that, you know, it's hard, it's hard to be put out of your way on a busy schedule when it's easy to go to like the local grocery store to then schlep several miles out of your way to go to the co-op or, you know, a different grocery store that will meet more of your sustainability needs. It's a choice. And so, you know, also shifting when and how we do the groceries has been something that we've been kind of talking about and looking into to see if it's sustainable for us from a behavioral standpoint.

Barbro (12:59):

All of this information has definitely motivated me to reduce the amount of plastic that I use and that I have in my home, particularly in my kitchen. I would say environmental issues can seem so big and overwhelming, and this is one area where making changes in your life does actually protect you on a personal level, which at least helps me sleep a little bit at night. It's hard though because there's a lot of environments where we don't have full control and it's practically impossible, at least in the US to never be exposed to plastic. So I try as much as I can, but I know it won't be perfect without some systemic society-wide changes. Um, and so that's kind of the type of energy I try to bring in my work on this issue.

Katelan (13:47):

It wasn't really until the early 2000s that scientists started to research and investigate microplastics as a big problem. Early on, the focus was mainly on the impact to marine life. But we've since expanded our understanding of where microplastics are, where they're coming from, and we're starting to better understand how they affect our health. That's where today's expert comes in. Dr. Barbro Melghert is a lung researcher and professor of respiratory immunology at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands. She studies how our lungs interact with the environment, particularly air pollutants, which is where microplastics come in. Hi Barbara. Thanks for coming on the show.

Barbro (14:32):

Hi, nice to meet you.

Katelan (14:34):

A lot of your work focuses on the effects of microplastics when there inhaled into our lungs of the microplastics in our bodies. Do we have a sense of what percentage might be inhaled through our nose and mouth as opposed to consume through food and drink?

Barbro (14:51):

Oh, that's a very good question, and that's one that I've also wondered about and looked in literature for. And it's very difficult to do that modeling because there's just not enough data to do that. But the experts who do this modeling say that at least 50% of our intake is through inhalation. So that's the number I always give. But it doesn't take into account the really, really small plastic particles nanoplastics because we just can't measure them. Well,

Katelan (15:24):

So inside a lot of the microplastics in the air are coming from textiles and outside, a lot of them are coming from tires. Is that right?

Barbro (15:33):

Correct. So at, at least for the Netherlands, right, I know that a study done by, uh, a governmental agent here in the Netherlands is looked at what is the percentage of plastics outdoors? And they found that most of it was from, um, car tires. Then agricultural plastic was an important component in textiles, then I think in the third or fourth place. So they didn't look specifically at indoor air pollution, but all the studies all over the world that look at indoor versus outdoor, they'll show that indoor has much higher levels and that most of it is from textiles. Yes,

Katelan (16:12):

Doctors and scientists have found microplastics in our blood and placenta in all kinds of places, but it seems like it's still a little bit unclear what the health effects are. It seems like we're still figuring that out. Um, I wanted to share this question from Elizabeth in Davenport, Iowa who asked,

Barbro (16:30):

What are the long-term consequences going to be of microplastics being in every part of our body At this point, I would love to know how in 10 to 20 years we're going to see the effects of microplastics even further and, and what kind of health issues we're all going to be facing because of our chronic exposure to plastics?

Barbro (16:49):

Yeah, that's a very important question, and I wish I had the answer <laugh>, but yeah, we're working on that, right? We don't know. The researchers only do these experiments, but that is all short term and usually with fairly high concentration. So that's very difficult to translate to long-term low exposure. What we do know is from people in occupational settings. So people who work in plastics industries, they have very high exposure, and then we see that a good percentage of people develop respiratory problems. But how that translates to the levels in our homes, that is very difficult. And I, one, one more remark to make about that is it's not just the plastic particles. Honestly, I think that the plastic particles are similar to all the other particles that we're being exposed to, that they have some effect. But as long as you keep your exposure down, you're relatively safe.

Barbro (17:53):

The problem with plastic is the chemicals that are inside plastic that can reach out. There's so many unknown chemicals in plastic that have endocrine disrupting, uh, properties that have cancer inducing properties. And they can also reach out of these microplastics and, and that combination or these chemicals by themselves, that low level exposure. It's impossible to answer this question, but I think it's a really important question and probably in 20 years will be able to say, oh, this is what is probably happening. We should have done something. Mm. So that, that's my great fear, right, that in 20 years, that Right, we say, oh, we should have done more 20 years ago.

Katelan (18:39):

Yeah. You mentioned, you know, one thing we can do is just try to limit our plastic exposure. Now we interact with plastic seemingly everywhere. Even if it's not directly in front of you, the supply chain of the food that got to you or of the items that got to you probably involve plastic. Are there places in our homes or elsewhere in our lives that are particularly prone to creating an environment with microplastics? What should we specifically be looking out for?

Barbro (19:07):

So if we're talking about indoor microplastics, which are mostly from textiles, then the quality of the textile, the fibers being used, is really important. So this tendency of people to go to really cheap brands, they use fibers of really bad quality. So they have very short filaments that easily break off and, and are distributed in our homes. But the problem is that if something is expensive, it's not necessarily good quality that makes it really difficult for consumers to make these decisions. So I think there's a, um, a role for a policy and, and government here is to come up with labels that tell you something about the quality of what you're buying. Um, so you can make informed decisions of what you want to buy. But I think the most important one is don't buy plastic. The more we buy, the more will drive production and, and the more the plastic industry will, will, uh, keep investing in making more plastic and, and trying to make money out of it.

Katelan (20:15):

Should we be looking for fabrics that are, I'm assuming not synthetic, right? You're kind of like looking for natural fibers.

Barbro (20:23):

Yes. Um, there is one caveat, however, some of the chemicals used in, uh, synthetic fabrics are also used in natural fibers. Some of the colors, some of them UV protection. You can also find that in wool. So again, very difficult for people to make informed decisions. Um, I, I guess I would say I'm pleading against just adding chemicals to everything <laugh> without really knowing their health effects.

Katelan (20:53):

Yeah, I mean it's, it's kind of a new way, at least for, you've been studying this for a while, so it's probably not new to you at all, but it's kind of a new way to think. You know, you buy food and drink and you're kind of thinking, okay, this is going inside my body. But even thinking about the thing that the food was wrapped in or your clothes or your rug, like thinking about what that's going to do when a, when little pieces of it are inside of you is kind of a new thing to think about.

Barbro (21:18):

Exactly. For me, indeed was new as well. Um, and it lead to implementing changes in my home. So I have no idea whether that makes any difference, but it gives me a good feeling. Right. Like I I'm taking control.

Katelan (21:35):

Yeah. Yeah. And especially, I mean, I guess <laugh> maybe a part of the silver lining that, that so many microplastics come from inside is that we can control our inside environment much more than we can control our outside environments.

Barbro (21:48):

That's a very good point. Indeed. And I, I keep telling people to ventilate not just because of the microplastic, but all the other exposures in your home. You can dilute them out. So unless you're living right next to a very crowded, um, highway or living in the middle of, uh, Los Angeles or Mexico City, then don't ventilate during the day. But during the night when the levels are lower, another thing you could do is vacuum clean. That has been shown to lower the amount of microplastic. So there are some things that you can do and they're easy, right? So why not do them?

Katelan (22:26):

One thing I do is not wear shoes inside. Whenever I was reading about the tires, I was like, this is probably also good for that. 'cause if we walk the dog and we walk on the street where there's tire residue, maybe that's good to not wear your shoes inside.

Barbro (22:39):

Well, actually, not just for that, but also for, uh, bringing in pesticides. And I just read this other paper that shows that we bring in all these things, pesticide chemicals, microplastic through our shoes. So yeah, if that makes a big difference to your overall exposure, I don't know, but at least it gives you a feeling of control, right? A positive boost. And I think that's important as well.

Katelan (23:05):

A common question we get is how do we get rid of the microplastics that are already inside of us? Uh, Lindsey from Wheaton, Maryland ask,

Lindsey (23:14):

How do I get this out of me? I didn't ask for it. I don't want it. It can have negative health consequences. Like what are we doing to rid ourselves of microplastics? Or is there even a way to do that?

Barbro (23:28):

Another excellent question, and I think there isn't any data to answer this question. So we know, for instance, speaking of the lung, right? I mean, I'm, I'm a lung person, that there are ways that the lung can get rid of things. We inhale through specialized cells that have little hairs that move mucus up to your mouth so you clean the lining of your lungs. So I'm assuming that will also help with inhaled microplastics, but how we have no idea how efficient this is that as, as far as I know, hasn't been characterized yet. Um, if the particles are really small, then of course they can go through the barrier of the lung, they get into your blood. They might also get out in, um, through your kidneys or your liver. These things have been modeled, but it's very little data to, to really answer this question.

Barbro (24:24):

And of course for the gut it's a little bit different because the gut has a another hole at the, uh, at the other end, uh, that gets rid of stuff. So there it seems quite like, okay, if it doesn't get, uh, transported through the, the intestinal barrier, then at some point you will just move it out for the lung. It's a little bit more complicated. Uh, and for things that get through your skin, which is another possible way of getting microplastics into your body, I guess that would be similar as to when once it has gone into the blood through the intestinal lung.

Katelan (25:01):

Has there been any modeling or study tracking the amount of microplastics in someone's body over time? Like do we know that it builds up?

Barbro (25:10):

As far as I'm aware that those studies have not been done yet, but I do know that in the Netherlands, one of those studies is, um, being scheduled or or being performed. So they have radio labeled plastic and they're going to give that orally to people to see where it goes. And so that will give, I think, important answers. Wow. Um, as to whether we can actually get rid of it again or whether it's sort of get stuck somewhere.

Katelan (25:43):

Some of your research has been funded by the Dutch government, which is great. Which countries do you believe are sort of taking microplastic seriously? What would you like to see governments do or study to make progress on microplastics and even sort of regulations as well?

Barbro (26:01):

Yeah, so we've been very lucky in the Netherlands because, um, they've recognized that this is a potential new health concern. So they've been funding, uh, research. Um, it's on their agenda. It's now also dripping towards Europe. So there are new European calls from more research. There are various European consortias while looking into this. I think in Europe at least the governments realize that this is something that needs to be investigated. There are a lot of citizens in, in countries in Asia that are also concerned, c amount of pollution in their environment. But I have no idea how much, um, research is being funded there. I I hope China will start looking into this as well, because there are many studies coming out of China looking at levels of microplastics, health effects of microplastics, and of course, China is a huge producer of plastics, so <laugh>.

Katelan (27:00):

Right, right.

Barbro (27:01):

And it would be good if, if that can somehow lead to better production, less production, uh, more sustainable production. I must say that, that my, um, that I'm a bit concerned about the us

Katelan (27:16):

Me too.

Barbro (27:17):

I, I hope that there will be money for this kind of research, but I don't have a high hope at the moment, <laugh>.

Katelan (27:26):

Right.

Barbro (27:26):

If I can be a little bit political about this, <laugh>.

Katelan (27:30):

Absolutely. What kind of regulations would you like to see or expect to see from the European, the us, the Chinese governments? What kinds of things could we start implementing hypothetically to help either mediate the amount of microplastics currently in, in the air, right, or stop the amount of microplastics being produced in the first place?

Barbro (27:51):

The problem is, is that it's really difficult to measure microplastics. So we don't have sensors that can tell us, oh, there are too many microplastics here. We have to do something. Um, of course, um, the European Union already has the mandate about single use plastic. So that's why we don't have any plastic straws anymore. And we're not allowed to use single use plastic anymore. At least we have to pay more for it. That's a first step. Um, also the Netherlands has been very vocal and effective in reducing plastic from cosmetics. So that ban is slowly getting into effect. We're up against a lot of plastic. So, and it's, it's something that's wonderful material, right? It's, you can make anything outta it. It's cheap. It's, it's, it's moldable it. So, so we can't really do without, so we should be more sustainable about that. So I think the, the, the ban on single use plastic is a good one because we can all bring a cup. You don't have to constantly use a, a plastic one, right? But yeah, so I think we need a lot more discussion to be able to come up with good solutions there and that that can span the world.

Katelan (29:10):

Well, thank you very, very much for coming on the show. I could ask you 30 more questions, <laugh>, but I'm going to let you go. I really appreciate it.

Barbro (29:19):

Thank you very much for the interest and I always happy, uh, to, uh, boost awareness for this problem.

Katelan (29:30):

Hearing that there are still a lot of open questions around microplastics and our health might be a little bit unsettling, but like Barbara mentioned, we can take control where we can and we can be ready and waiting to take action when new science and research comes out. Not only that, we can support and demand more financing for this kind of research. Oh, and I also wanted to pass along a resource that Barbara shared with me. I think y'all might be into it. It's called the MPI index. It's an academic paper put together by some of her colleagues, and it compares how different types of plastic degrade into microplastics over time. So if you're into that kind of thing, we've link to it in the show notes. Of course, there's more we can do further up the supply chain to prevent microplastics. This like pretty much every environmental issue it seems is a systemic issue. I called up Commons founder, Sanchali Seth Pal to talk about how we can fight the system.

Katelan (30:39):

Hey Sanchali, let's talk microplastics.

Sanchali (30:41):

Let's get into it.

Katelan (30:43):

All right. So we talked earlier about how sort of defeating it is that microplastics are coming from everywhere from water pipes to the machinery used to process our food. They're essentially systemic. So I'm wondering what can we do or what is already being done to change the system?

Sanchali (31:00):

Well, of course the first thing we can do is try to stop plastic at its source. This is for our own health, but also for systemic reasons. We can try to opt out of plastic as much as possible to lower demand for plastic and the companies that rely on it. So when we do things like choose reusables, opt to buy from refill or bulk stores, or even bring our own takeout containers to restaurants, we are reducing demand for plastic.

Katelan (31:25):

But when we look at the big picture, do these individual actions really matter that much?

Sanchali (31:30):

It's a good question. It can feel like, you know, just my personal actions don't matter that much. But the interesting thing is that companies do actually change their behavior to respond to consumer demands when enough consumers voice them.

Katelan (31:43):

When have we actually seen this work?

Sanchali (31:46):

Well, let's think back to 2018. Plastic straws were plastic enemy number one with all of the public pressure. Starbucks announced it would work towards eliminating plastic straws in its stores.

Katelan (31:59):

Plastic straws are actually a really interesting example because they're small and they can't be recycled. So they're definitely turning into microplastics as they're sitting in landfills and waterways.

Sanchali (32:10):

Exactly. And since 2018, Starbucks has actually started rolling out straw list lids, bioplastic straws, and other solutions to avoid single use plastic straws. And yeah, a straw isn't the biggest impact in the world, but with a company that size, the impact is notable. They could eliminate a billion plastic straws per year.

Katelan (32:29):

So our choices really can influence these big companies.

Sanchali (32:32):

Exactly. When a lot of us are making these choices, we can make an impact and we can increase our chances of making an impact when we actually tackle microplastics with our communities. This can start by just talking to folks to make them more aware of the issue, having conversations like improving water filtration at schools, or switching the little league team to metal water bottles, or even campaigning our representatives to take action on microplastics.

Katelan (32:58):

'cause when we know better, we can do better

Sanchali (33:00):

For sure. When we do avoid plastic, that practice, it becomes a constant reminder of how much plastic there is out there and how much we're fighting for. And it can be one of the things that reminds us to vote it out of our communities when we can.

Katelan (33:14):

I actually voted on a couple plastic laws here in Los Angeles over the past several years.

Sanchali (33:19):

Yeah, you're not the only one. Across the US over 500 cities have single use plastic bag bans and 12 states have bans.

Katelan (33:27):

Do we know if these bans are actually doing anything?

Sanchali (33:30):

They are. There was a study last year looking at the bans in New Jersey, Vermont, Philadelphia, Portland, and Santa Barbara. Across these five locations, the bands have reduced plastic bag consumption by 6 billion bags per year. Apparently that's enough to circle the earth 42 times.

Katelan (33:47):

That's amazing. And it's also great news because plastic bags, like plastic straws are not easy to recycle and basically impossible to recycle. So it's a great place to start.

Sanchali (33:57):

It is a great place to start. We can't forget that the origin of all microplastics and all synthetic plastic is big oil.

Katelan (34:05):

They're the bad guys.

Sanchali (34:06):

They know what they're doing too. The world's largest fossil fuel and chemical companies, including Exxon, bp, shell, Dow Chemical and DuPont are actively lobbying against stronger regulations on microplastic chemicals. They did it, for instance, in the UN Stop Home Convention where a proposal was out to regulate toxic and persistent chemicals in microplastics and in the UN Global Plastics Treaty, which was making an effort to reduce plastic production.

Katelan (34:33):

You know, I've also heard that as we switch to more renewable energy and need fossil fuels less for energy, that the fossil fuel industry is planning to rev up plastic production to sort of compensate for their potential losses.

Sanchali (34:46):

That is super interesting and honestly makes sense because plastics are really profitable. According to the International Energy Agency, plastics are on track to drive half of oil demand by 2050. That's more than trucks, aviation and shipping. And notably, big oil isn't lobbying against recycling plastic because recycling plastic doesn't affect their bottom lines.

Katelan (35:08):

Wow. That is very telling. Is there a good guy in all this besides us trying to use less plastic? Are there any bigger groups or governments going after the fossil fuel industry and their onslaught of plastic?

Sanchali (35:21):

Well, as we mentioned before, the UN is really trying. In 2022, they did adopt a historic resolution to come up with legally binding rules on plastic pollution, including microplastics with over 150 countries involved.

Katelan (35:36):

So they adopted a resolution to come up with some laws, but there are no actual laws yet. Right.

Sanchali (35:43):

Yeah, that is fair. It is very slow going. The next meeting is in Switzerland in August, and folks in the group have expressed a lot of frustration about how slow the negotiations are. So we should definitely keep our eyes on this and keep the pressure on to get stuff done. The resolution they're thinking about will explicitly call out microplastic pollution and the impact of plastic pollution on the environment, as well as the need for governance and long-term elimination of plastic

Katelan (36:09):

Outside the un. It seems like the EU is hopefully pushing things forward here. Barbara shared with me that the EU is a big driver of funding and policy development for microplastics and environmental health. She specifically called out Germany, France, and the Netherlands as doing a lot of research specifically in air, water, and food and human health. And she said that Norway and Sweden are investing a lot in environmental monitoring of microplastics.

Sanchali (36:35):

That is great to hear. I have also heard that Canada, China, and Australia are contributing a bunch of research, and it's kind of exciting to see governments prioritize this kind of work, but it makes me wonder what makes them prioritize it. Did Barbara say anything about why the Dutch government was funding her work?

Katelan (36:53):

She said that for a long time in the Netherlands, there's been this tradition of environmental awareness and that the country has a deep cultural connection to water and land management. They also rely a lot on international trade, which exposes them to a lot of pollution risks like plastic. So she said that microplastics fits into this broader focus that the country has on sustainability, public health and innovation, which is why they're prioritizing research that combines environmental science and public health.

Sanchali (37:24):

We still have so much to learn. I am both really scared and excited to see what comes out of this research, and I'm really grateful we have folks like Barbara working on it.

Katelan (37:35):

Me too. And I hope we move a little bit more quickly soon,

Sanchali (37:39):

And when we do, we will definitely report back here on the show.

Katelan (37:42):

You bet. Thanks as always. And Charlie. Thanks,

Sanchali (37:45):

Caitlin.

Katelan (37:52):

So let's recap some actionable takeaways. What can we do to limit our exposure to microplastics in our home and our communities? Personally, we can cut out plastic water bottles. We can avoid using plastic in our kitchens where we can, especially in places that are gonna be hot or have high traction. Think plastic cutting boards, plastic utensils, especially the ones used to cook hot food, plastic dishes in the microwave. Even staying on top of the dust in your home, avoiding wearing shoes inside and using an air purifier can help. You can also start phasing out synthetic fibers where you can in your clothes, but also in high traffic areas of your home, like rugs, carpets, bedding, and honestly, I know it's hard, but another thing we can do for ourselves is to try not to stress too much. Stress isn't healthy, so do what you can when you can. You know,

Katelan (38:49):

In our families and our communities, we can talk about microplastics. It's hard not to feel like a nag, I get it. But we have an episode from last season to help with that. It's called Ripple Effects, how to convince people in your life to live more sustainably. You could also consider gifting people in your life some sustainable swaps if you think they'll use it, but they just need a nudge. Give your workout buddy a stainless steel water bottle to replace their single use plastic ones or gift your foodie friend, a wood cutting board to swap out their plastic one. And within our city's states and countries, we can advocate and vote for legislation to cut down on single use plastic and push for stronger regulations on plastic use at large. We can also support and advocate for microplastics research. A lot of scientific efforts are in dire straits here in the us, so the more vocal we can be about this important research, the better. One of the biggest things we can do right now is making more people aware of them, where they're coming from, and how they're impacting us. If you know someone who may be interested to learn more about that stuff, send them this episode. On today's episode. You heard from [credits]

Katelan (40:15):

This episode and every episode of Second Nature is edited and engineered by Evan Goodchild. It was written and produced by me, Katelan Cunningham. Thanks so much for listening. We really appreciate you. Catch you back here next week.

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